// i is for internets ([info]girlyunderwear) wrote,
@ 2008-02-04 01:58:00
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Entry tags:commentary, religion

cloudy thoughts
I was at a temple where this monk was talking about the two things we all strive for: money and love. They are something we can't live without, yet they are both impermanent, an illusion. In the end, when we die, we will have nothing...unless we have love for god.

Something about that rings true to me. The fact that we all chase after money is undeniable, and how it can bring us so much misery. But the other thing...love. You can love someone and share your whole life with them, but in the end you have to deal with the pain of losing each other. Sure you have memories of your wonderful life together, but that's all that remains. Or one of you moves on, get a new partner. But the love of god, that connection, that is something you will always carry with you. How comforting that must be, to not die alone because you have god.

Then I started realizing how incredibly selfish that is. If you forgo all tangible things like money and love, to make room for god, you're only doing it so in the end you'll have something to hold on to. A few people are willing to let go of the material things to reach true enlightenment, but I suspect the majority embrace god out of fear, doubt, and selfish reasons. You would be using your faith as a crutch your whole life. Your existence becomes surface, your relationships meaningless because you are afraid to love.

I choose to accept that even if something is impermanent, it still holds value. I don't want to escape from this world, because this is all I know.

Which would you rather risk your life for: money, love or god?


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[info]sui_generis
2008-02-04 07:27 am UTC (link)


So in order to not have to deal with someday losing the object of your real affection who is mortal and impermanent, as is all matter, people are supposed to make up an imaginary friend to "love", so they can pretend they'll never lose that which doesn't exist?

That's not just "selfish", it's incredibly sad.

Santa Claus for adults, in fact.


But to answer your question, love is the only thing worth dying for. Love of something real, I mean. Money and god are sociological constructs and only exist by collective agreement to mass hallucinate.


(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]eddie_vedderx
2008-02-04 07:35 am UTC (link)
obama is a sociological construct

and he only exists by collective agreement to mass hallucinate

it's entertaining to see 'change' 'hope' 'shallow logic'

and simple math 'but how did the deer feel?'

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]sui_generis, 2008-02-04 07:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eddie_vedderx, 2008-02-04 07:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sui_generis, 2008-02-04 07:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]uberdionysus, 2008-02-05 01:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thomasngo, 2008-02-04 07:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]throwingstardna, 2008-02-04 08:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]uberdionysus, 2008-02-05 01:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ghostlight, 2008-02-14 11:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sui_generis, 2008-02-14 12:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ghostlight, 2008-02-15 04:16 am UTC

[info]rasputen
2008-02-04 07:35 am UTC (link)
I would say love, as it is the only of the 3 that in which we can find compassion and unity with our fellow humans.

(Reply to this)


[info]gillen
2008-02-04 07:38 am UTC (link)
If I die for love there's a tangible payout. If I die for God there's at least the belief in a tangible payout. What would be the point of dying for money?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]girlyunderwear
2008-02-04 07:40 am UTC (link)
should I say risk my life for?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]gillen, 2008-02-04 07:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eddie_vedderx, 2008-02-04 07:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gillen, 2008-02-04 07:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]corbenfrost, 2008-02-04 03:28 pm UTC

[info]gillen
2008-02-04 07:41 am UTC (link)
That said, if you came up to me and said "I will give you 10 million dollars right now, but the hitch is that ten years from today you will drop stone dead." I would take that deal in a heartbeat.

(Reply to this)


[info]missioncontrol
2008-02-04 07:46 am UTC (link)
What about god being an illusion?

(Reply to this)


[info]botrinks
2008-02-04 09:23 am UTC (link)
Ah complex. It depends on the circumstances... For instance i would risk my life for certain people i love, because at this time I wouldn’t be able to live happily, if i knew i could have risked my life to save them but didn’t.
Simultaneously selfish & altruistic.... but, heavy on the selfish.

For God & money, they are the same thing arnt they?! aha no. People do kill for religion but that’s more to do with them being nutters & less to do with any religion. I think life is suffering, why lay it on thick by killing for your belief? better to live another day so you can give a sermon in your underpants, shouting scripture at the soccer moms in the mall.

Killing for money - I would off Arial Shiron for hard cash but not Kyle, does that make me evil? either way i can live with that. Lots of grey in ths one.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]girlyunderwear
2008-02-05 09:15 am UTC (link)
Religion is the only thing out of the three capable of making people do evil things on a mass scale.

Oh hay you're still alive :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]botrinks, 2008-02-12 10:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ghostlight, 2008-02-14 11:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]girlyunderwear, 2008-02-15 06:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ghostlight, 2008-02-16 01:08 am UTC

[info]moneda
2008-02-04 11:55 am UTC (link)
Which would you rather risk your life for: money, love or god?

Love. Even though I don't really believe I can love in the you're-the-only-one-for-me-forever way, I still feel it beats the other two. Money just isn't worth the risk and I don't believe there's a god that would care.

 

(Reply to this)


[info]economyofline
2008-02-04 12:02 pm UTC (link)
love

(Reply to this)


[info]jjjiii
2008-02-04 12:50 pm UTC (link)
Money and love may be illusory, but for all we know god may well be a lie. None of these things by themselves will give anyone everything they want or need out of life. They are merely ingredients.

(Reply to this)


[info]sarcazm
2008-02-04 12:57 pm UTC (link)
i don't believe in the afterlife. god is a human construct. money is fiat. love for another and from another, however intangible it may seem, is the only thing worth dying for. this also includes love for yourself, and your principles and values.

but you can only be certain of the here and now, so make the most of it.

(Reply to this)


[info]tr1x0r
2008-02-04 02:30 pm UTC (link)
Being that I could never believe in something as ridiculous as "god" I guess Ill have to stick to reality.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]girlyunderwear
2008-02-05 09:16 am UTC (link)
No you dont. You just get high.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Which would you rather risk your life for: money, love or god?
[info]acidicjew
2008-02-04 02:33 pm UTC (link)
Which God?

Cause if its the God of "Love thy neighbour", I don't have to choose between love and god.

Also if god isn't impermanent, and God's love isn't imparmenent, and I can experience that love after death... then no love is imparmenent (just as no other experience would be imparmenent)because I have the capacity to experience things again, through consciousness, of moments that have passed.

Money isn't an experience, so it doesn't have the same value in death as love (god's or anyone elses).

I don't believe in god, or consciousness after death, I would not risk my life for money, and I would like to think (and thankfully I have not been put to this test) that I would risk my life for the love I have for another.

(Reply to this)


[info]autokrater
2008-02-04 02:35 pm UTC (link)
I agree with the comment above me for the most part.
Once you are dead and your body is rotting slowly 6 feet under in a graveyard neither god or money will make any difference.
So to risk your life for either is foolish. Money is just paper with no real value. It would make slightly more sense to risk your life for billions of precious jewels and gold though I still wouldn't.
God isn't real so there is no point. I mean you could reject the concept your entire life and then when you are falling off of a cliff say "God I believe in you!"..it's not really going to matter.
God is just there to lessen the blow of death,to make it seem like it's not such a bad thing.
However if you love yourself and others you are close to than you can at least reap real genuine experiences from these relationships in your short lifetime. If you waste your whole life questing after money or God you will probably die disappointed. If you die surrounded by the few people you care about or even alone,knowing that you lived your life by your rules..it seems a tad more satisfying. But tell that to the dying old Christian women who is 100% sure she is going to be in a golden mansion with jesus seconds after her final breath. She is almost looking forward to it.

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[info]kim_chi_lite
2008-02-04 05:36 pm UTC (link)
money comes and goes easily, easily made easily lost same with love of others too. god is pointless cuz there isn't one its all in one's mind, like a hallucination.

i wouldn't risk my life for anything or anyone other than my child if i ever have one. however, loving myself completely and forgiving myself for mistakes and stuff is all the peace that i need.

(Reply to this)


[info]pokarpokarpokar
2008-02-04 06:37 pm UTC (link)
i would most easily risk my life for an inordinately high probability of outrageous financial gain

(Reply to this)


[info]pokarpokarpokar
2008-02-04 06:38 pm UTC (link)
only 1 thing in life is certain: death.

(Reply to this)


[info]jacksnow
2008-02-04 09:10 pm UTC (link)
Why are so many people saying God is bullshit? How the hell do they know?
Anyway: why must we risk our lives for any of those kinds of concepts: money, love, God? Isn’t there some kind of healthy medium where we can derive satisfaction from where we are right now instead of being reliant on all kinds of external and / or conceptual notions?

I resent the idea that pursuits have to be made instead of simply fostering an inner sense of peace.

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[info]girlyunderwear
2008-02-05 01:19 am UTC (link)
inner sense of peace is nice and all but uh...i need to get laid.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]jacksnow, 2008-02-05 03:21 am UTC

[info]toolheadjdg
2008-02-05 12:24 am UTC (link)
HHDL has GREAT advice on living in a Westernized world and still living a core Buddhist life and valuing impermanence in today's world. There are many, many rich and poor people who are basically arhats that have figured out how to balance it all.

I personally would rather risk my life for love. You can live without money and without a god, but you have to have love to survive this life from moment one. A baby who is handed away at birth and not loved and nourished turns out a very angry and usually problematic adult. Love conquers all because without it, you can't even have the idea for money, which alleviated suffering and gave people things they need and without love you couldn't dream up the idea of a god, which should be one who has immeasurable love and goodness for his/her people.

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[info]tragemorph
2008-02-05 01:48 am UTC (link)
The HHDL advice sounds like it would be interesting to check out... is there a particular essay you'd recommend?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]toolheadjdg, 2008-02-05 02:21 am UTC

[info]raccoon714
2008-02-05 01:38 am UTC (link)
I think your first paragraph makes a false assumption. God doesn't need our love for any of us to still have faith. God doesn't interfere with human life or the laws of physics, at least as much is observable. So living for God in adulation, or even hatred, doesn't somehow grant distinction (unless personally derived psychologically). Risking my life for God almost seems blasphemous.

Love is worth the stretch.

(Reply to this)


[info]tragemorph
2008-02-05 01:43 am UTC (link)
The thing that always strikes me about money (or posessions/social status) and love (maybe more sex/desirable partner[s] etc. in this case) is how little connection there often is between *how much* someone has and whether they have *enough.*

Probably the happiest dude I ever met was this guy I used to work with back in Silicon Valley who came from Africa. He made about the same as the rest of us, but you could tell he had all the money he needed and then some, he was always so laid back. But I've also met lots of people that I would consider quite rich who never feel like they have enough money. Their greed just keeps them from enjoying what they have.

That's what I hate about things like the iPhone. If you see one and play with it, you start to fucking want one. But you were doing just fine before without it. Video games are crazy awesome these days but I was just as thrilled with an 8-bit Nintendo when I was a kid. And of course a similar argument can be made about sex and the media, etc.

To answer your final question... I'd risk my life for money, love or god provided there was adventure/fun/excitement/ something with meaning involved. Whether it's going after the girl/boy of your dreams or pursuing a risky but exciting career path, that's the good stuff right there, that will give you memories to last a lifetime. No one's going to be lying on their deathbed thinking, "Fuck yeah, I'm so glad I was first in line to get the damh iPhone."

(Reply to this)


[info]hai_fi
2008-02-05 03:29 am UTC (link)
I think the one you would rather risk your life for IS god - that is the object of your worship, of your affection, of your life. Maybe it's not even about risking their life, but just spending their life, chasing after relationships, money, power, fame, or whatever it is they truly want (not just in their more impulsive moments) - that is their god.

Hopefully your god is practical enough to give you something worth living for right now. But, if you see god as this great big healthy meal, and this 'impermanent' world as a bunch of lead paint chips, it sure would be worth it to forsake the impermanent, keep your health, and get the good stuff at the end (assuming you don't die of hunger in this analogy). I personally don't think that belief is cohesive with my other life experiences, but to each his own.

If you believe, like me, in an all-powerful, all-knowing, and loving god, it would follow that god was smart enough to set this up world up somehow so that you could fully experience the impermanent and still love the permanent. If god merely dumped you into this illusory world made just to trick you... that's not a very loving god to be so cruel, nor a very smart god if you could outsmart him.

I think I just wrote more than you did. Apologies

(Reply to this)


[info]cloudberry
2008-02-06 06:23 am UTC (link)
I don't want to escape from this world, because this is all I know. -nod- :)

(Reply to this)


[info]chuckdarwin
2008-02-06 09:44 am UTC (link)
I always took you for an atheist. I wouldn't even spend a millisecond worrying about 'god', much less risk anything - even a penny - on the idea. The entire concept of divinity isn't worth an ounce of my piss.

The only thing to hang onto in this world is love.

(Reply to this)


[info]chrisvnerd
2008-02-11 02:41 pm UTC (link)
I'm personally a "love" kind of guy, but basically each of them have the same tangible effect: It directly or indirectly gives people that little shot of chemicals that tells people things are all right. How that happens can be manipulated in twisted ways, but each can have a very profound effect.

(Reply to this)


[info]ghostlight
2008-02-14 11:32 am UTC (link)
Pascal's Wager dictates God.

It is the only one you can bet on and not lose.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]girlyunderwear
2008-02-15 06:16 am UTC (link)
i aint a bettin man

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]ghostlight, 2008-02-16 01:07 am UTC

(54 comments) - (Post a new comment)

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